A conversation about comparison of Kabah and Karbala


Ishmael Abraham Shia book Kamil Az-Ziyarat says that land of Karbala is spiritually superior to land of Kabah. But Quran says that Kabah is the first House of God on earth made for worship of God by humans and is full of blessings but Quran never mentions Karbala. Have Muslims ignored the Book of God like Jews and Christians due to blind imitation(taqlid) of anti-Quranic writers.
Sayed Ali The problem with Bakris is they never read their own books. To hold distinction of earth from a holy place is not something unusual. The companions also shared this view. Hence Nasbis like yourself mock the followers of the Ahlulbayt (a.s) for believing the soil of Karbala is of great importance. Even though it was so dear to the Prophet (saw) and the companions (r.a) they used to keep it with them.
On the same token you must also mock the same companions who believed in the blessings of the earth of Makkah and Madinah. In addition to the companions, scholars also held a view that ANY land carries a blessing (as recorded in Sahih Muslim). It is a wonder why people like yourself become irritated by Muslims, who appreciate the land of Karbala for this very reason. Perhaps it because such reminder will only bring back memories of the actions of your ‘Amir Muawiyah’s’ son.
Ibn Hajar Asqalani:
Abu Bakr Al-AbharI Al-Maliki argued that Madinah is better than Makkah because the Prophet (saw) was created from the Madinah’s argil and he (saw) is the best among human kind. Therefore, his (saw) argil is the best. His (saw) argil being the best among all argil is non-questionable. However, the debate is whether that makes Madinah better than Makkah or not, because having two things in vicinity and one of them having the same qualities of the other will lead us to say that it is because of their vicinity, therefore anything in immediate vicinity of Madinah would be better than anything in immediate vicinity of Makkah, and this was the answer of many recent scholars and it is worth examination.
Source: Fath Al-Bari. Part 18, Pg. # 223.
Ishmael Abraham Ibn Hajar is not giving any conclusive verdict so why I should I give preference to a controversial opinion over Quranic virtues of the House of God.
Sayed Ali I only gave you one example would you like me to show you the others? Now it has become a ‘controversial opinion’?
Sayed Ali By the way talking about holy places your ‘Imam’ Abu Hanifah went against Sahih Hadith. He did not believe Medina was a sanctuary. Consider the following.
Narrated Anas: The Prophet (saw) said, “Medina is a sanctuary from that place to that. Its trees should not be cut and no heresy should be innovated nor any sin should be committed in it, and whoever innovates in it an heresy or commits sins (bad deeds), then he will incur the curse of Allah, the angels, and all the people."
Muhammad Amin ibn Abidin:
Medina has not sanctuary among us (i.e. Hanafis) and Mecca is superior to it according to the preferable opinion, except for the members of the Prophet (saw), because it is absolutely superior to Kabba and the Throne and Al-Kursi and the Ziyarah of his grave is recommended, rather it is said that it is Wajib for the one who has the ability.
Source: Radd al-Muhtar ala ad-Dur al-Mukhtar. Pg. # 52 – 54.
Look forward to your reply. That is if you have anything academic to say. Let me know if you need any more medication to help with your illness.
Ishmael Abraham The narration of Kamil Az-Ziyarat does not compare the body of Imam Husain(raa) to Kabah but the land of Karbala to land of Kabah, so the comparison with quote of Ibn Abidin is false.
Ishmael Abraham Ziyarah is mustahab while Hajj is wajib. That’s why Al-Kafi says Imam Zayn Al-Abidin(ra) did dozens of Hajjs.
Sayed Ali You really are incompetent. The land of Karbala was considered scared based on numerous Hadith. Not only because of Imam Hussain (a.s).
Ishmael Abraham I do not know a Sahih Hadith which says Karbala is superior to Kabah.
Sayed Ali Not in Bakri books. Though your Sahih Hadiths have advocated all sorts of nonsense.
Ishmael Abraham Many Shia Sahih Hadiths contain kufr as well. That’s why we should give more importance to Quran and aql.Sayed Ali You worship a God who has a foot in hell and your here trying to educate me about Kufar. Better start praying Allah puts his foot in hell before your reach there.
Ishmael Abraham Quran mentions the word Saq(shin) for God. So, using such a word is not kufr if you do not believe in it literally. And there is a narration in Al-Kafi which even unites the Creator and creation by calling Imams(ra) eyes, ears, face, tongue and sides of Allah.
Sayed Ali We don’t take things literally. And we should understand the Quran by allowing it to explain itself. Your understanding of the Quran is based on nothing but contradictions. This is not about a Shin but a Foot! Next you will be telling me Allah will be breastfeeding people like the way Aisha did.
Ishmael Abraham You expose your fahish(lewd) heart once again.
Tau Rean sanctity is something that Allah gives to everything and everyone He wants, if He gives more sanctity to something than something else that is what He knows better.
in your books it has been narrated that the Prophet(saw) said to Kaa’ba:
وَالَّذِي نَفْسُ مُحَمَّدٍ بِيَدِهِ لَحُرْمَةُ الْمُؤْمِنِ أَعْظَمُ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ حُرْمَةً مِنْكِ مَالِهِ وَدَمِهِ وَأَنْ نَظُنَّ بِهِ إِلاَّ خَيْرًا
By the One in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, the sanctity of the believer is greater before Allah than your sanctity, his blood and his wealth, and to think anything but good of him.’
Sunan Al-Termidhi
so if Allah(swt) gives a high sanctity to the grave of a believer like Imam Husain(a.s) who gave his everything for Allah, it is not surprising at all.
Ishmael Abraham You are forgetting the hurmah(sanctity) of the honour of a believer because Shias always violate the honour of the Companions who preceded us in Islam. {“Verily your blood, your property and your honour are as sacred and inviolable as the sanctity of this day of yours, in this month of yours and in this town of yours. Verily! I have conveyed this message to you."}
Neuman N. Nazir Ishmael you are too much of an exoteric literalist. If you know Arabic then you know the Basmallah formulations of the Qur’an implicate the entire cosmos as being within a womb, and that womb is within the body of the Imam. Thus all lands are holy lands. The difference is that which is an icon of the Imam, who is the Beyt/House of God. The Kaaba is an icon of the Imam much as Karbala is. Yet the Kaaba was built by one Imam and Karbala stained with the blood of an Imam. What you fail to see is that icons change as zeitgeists change; which is why the mishkan went to Shiloh, to Jerusalem, and today the icon is the Kaaba. When the Qaim comes we will have new icons. Do we care ? The goal is to ascend to the reality behind the icon and not remain trapped behind it. Your own religion, your own sect has produced enough literature on the Ascension theology through the 7 heavens (the 7 classical planets) on all this. When Sunni Islam claims the earthly Kaaba is torn to ascend up to the 7 Kaaba (typed through Saturn) then to turn around and critique similar traditions in Shi’ism is utterly preposterous
Ishmael Abraham I do not care what your perspective of so called Sunni Islam is. I do not believe in blind taqlid. I find no mention of land of Karbala in Quran.



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