Ishmael Abraham Can ALLH be the true tetragrammaton? Because in Aramaic bible, Jesus peace be upon him uses the word Allaha.
Andy Trimble It;s two different languages and two different books, so, no.
Ishmael Abraham Hebrew/Arabic/Aramaic are sister/cognate languages and we are lost cousins.
Andy Trimble So you agree with me?
Ishmael Abraham No. The similarities outweigh the differences.
Andy Trimble The books are completely different.
Ishmael Abraham How. I consider Pierre a brother because he is an Abrahamic Unitarian like me.
Andy Trimble I’m confused. Are you saying the Koran and the Hebrew scriptures are identical?
Ishmael Abraham 99 percent identical. Same God. Same morality. Islam came only to remove pagan greek influence and tighter laws of Sabbath among others.
Ishmael Abraham One God of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac peace be upon them.
Andy Trimble It rejects Jesus as the son of God. It teaches that works are the way to salvation, thru submission.
Those are two wildly different concepts. Surely you don’t truly believe they are 99% identical.
Ishmael Abraham Bible in Acts calls Jesus peace be upon him a servant of God like Quran. Bible in Numbers says God is not a man. So, having sons is inconsistent. This heresy leads to Mormons calling Mary peace be upon her a wife of God.
Ishmael Abraham If you read Quran it reiterates faith and works, faith and works. Jesus peace be upon him also said: If you want to enter life keep the commandments.
Andy Trimble That’s man made religion. I’m talking about the scriptures themselves, which do not say that Jesus is God. I agree with you on that.
But the Koran says “God begotteth no son."
Andy Trimble Jesus IS the son of God. Anyone who confesses Him as their Lord (not equivalent to their God) also becomes a son of God.
God is our Father, of course He can have sons and daughters.
Andy Trimble I agree with you that the unitarian view is correct, but we differ, very distinctly, about the identity of Yashua, the son of Yahweh.
Ishmael Abraham You did not refute the Numbers verse that God is not a man.
Andy Trimble Of course not. Yashua is not Yahweh.
Ishmael Abraham Yashua will be our future Caliph.
Ishmael Abraham Our shared King Messiah.
Andy Trimble He is my current leader. He is not sitting idly by. God has highly exalted Him and made the Lord of all flesh.
Andy Trimble I agree that He will reign over all when He returns.
Ishmael Abraham We are here to prepare for his temporal kingdom because West has too paganized away from its Middle Eastern Abrahamic roots that it cannot recover from it and so unfit for his temporal kingdom.
Andy Trimble We are here to call people to repent, and to turn their hearts to God, thru the Lord Jesus.
Andy Trimble With all due respect, Muslims make the same mistake many Unitarians do: in rejecting the false trinitarian doctrine, they go too far. They push Jesus aside completely, not understanding that He is running the show as God commands Him to.
Joseph’s relationship to Pharaoh in Egypt is the prophetic foreshadowing of what Yashua is doing now.
Ishmael Abraham You are right. This is what Salafis do here. In trying to refute Shias they ignore the Prophetic family. The Ishmaelite King the Guided One and Israelite Messiah will work together against pseudo-Jewish Antichrist.
Ishmael Abraham I have to face the House of God like Daniel peace be upon him for sunset prayers in few minutes. I will be back.
Andy Trimble After Joseph interpreted Pharaoh’s dreams, Pharaoh made Joseph the Lord over Egypt. His words are profound…
Genesis 41 38 And Pharaoh said to his servants, “Can we find a man like this, in whom is the Spirit of God?” 39 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, “Since God has shown you all this, there is none so discerning and wise as you are. 40 You shall be over my house, and all my people shall order themselves as you command. Only as regards the throne will I be greater than you.” 41 And Pharaoh said to Joseph, “See, I have set you over all the land of Egypt.” 42 Then Pharaoh took his signet ring from his hand and put it on Joseph’s hand, and clothed him in garments of fine linen and put a gold chain about his neck. 43 And he made him ride in his second chariot. And they called out before him, “Bow the knee!” Thus he set him over all the land of Egypt. 44 Moreover, Pharaoh said to Joseph, “I am Pharaoh, and without your consent no one shall lift up hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.”
Andy Trimble You don’t have to do that anymore. The house of God lives IN you if Jesus Christ is your Lord.
God does not dwell n Temples made with hands.
Andy Trimble Your piety and your respect for God is admirable, brother. Throw off the shackles of religion and walk into the glorious freedom that Jesus Christ died to give you.
Not as westerners, as you describe, who use freedom as an excuse to sin, but use freedom to worship God as He directs you, and accept the holy spirit that He wants to give you.
Ishmael Abraham Jesus peace be upon him will perform Pilgrimage to the House of God built by Abraham and Ishmael peace be upon them when he returns. Paul corrupted the church by introducing this antinomian heresy you describe. That helped Antichrist of secularism to become powerful.
Ishmael Abraham What is the Egypt of today. It is Antichrist secularism and Jews and Christians have embraced it and only Muslims resist it.
Andy Trimble I’m not talking about Egypt.
I’m talking about the RELATIONSHIP between Joseph and Pharaoh.
In this analogy Joseph = Jesus, and Pharaoh = God.
It’s a prophetic foreshadowing.
Andy Trimble If I spoke of Mohammed the way you speak of Paul, you would be highly insulted, wouldn’t you?
Ishmael Abraham Quran also quotes the kingdom of Joseph peace be upon him in Chapter 12 and some scholars say that according to Quran 12:55 one can acquire kingdom provided that you follow the Scripture.
Ishmael Abraham I did not insult Paul. He talked about praying without ceasing like Muslims do and he taught women cover their heads like Muslim women do but it is not insulting to disagree when he calls law/commandments a curse while Jesus peace be upon him calls them source of life.
Andy Trimble Here;s your quote:
“Paul corrupted the church by introducing this antinomian heresy you describe. That helped Antichrist of secularism to become powerful."
Ishmael Abraham It is descriptive and I pray God enlightens your heart to understand how secularism became powerful in West.
Andy Trimble Is Isaiah a heretic?
Isaiah 66:1 Thus says the LORD, “Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest? Andy Trimble I know why secularism rose. Because people did not heed the words of Paul .
Andy Trimble 1 Kings 8:27 “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built! Ishmael Abraham Isaiah accords with Muslim doctrine that God is not physically located in Temples as ignorants think, but you forget the role of Messiah to revive the Temple.
No I don’t.
Andy Trimble It lives in everyone whom He gives the spirit.
Andy Trimble If you don’t want the spirit of God to dwell in you, and can’t force you. Ishmael Abraham The idea of in dwelling led to trinity through incarnation.
Andy Trimble No it didn’t
Andy Trimble But even if it did, so what? Man corrupts lots of God’s ideas.
Andy Trimble Mohammed’s rejection of the trinity led to the idea of Jesus being somehow absent and sitting on the sidelines.
That’s not God’s fault and it doesn’t make the Unitarian doctrine false because people perverted it.
Andy Trimble So, this 99% the same thing that you said, isn’t true, is it?
Ishmael Abraham You did not notice the 99% similarity from our shared calmness 🙂
Andy Trimble LOL… I love you, even if we disagree.
Andy Trimble Christ came to save everyone, right?
Andy Trimble Even if they won’t be saved?
Ishmael Abraham He said: I am sent ONLY to the lost sheep of house of Israel.
Andy Trimble But he sent his apostles out to save everyone didn’t he? He came to His people first, and when they rejected Him, He threw the doors open.
Ishmael Abraham The disciples never left the Holy Land. They focused on it to the end of their lives.
Andy Trimble So, when Peter saved Cornelius’s house, he was disobeying God?
Andy Trimble Why then, is Islam spreading throughout the world?
Andy Trimble Shouldn’t you be staying in the holy land?
Ishmael Abraham Peter had his reservations and those reservations were right but Paul influenced him.
Andy Trimble That was before he even met Paul.
Ishmael Abraham Quran 7:158 3:85 and 48:13 describe Islam as universal unlike Jesus peace be upon him.
Andy Trimble So, I ask again, the Koran and the Bible are NOT 99% the same, are they? Ishmael Abraham Cornelius was in the Holy Land.
Andy Trimble But he was a Hebrew
Andy Trimble To which Peter replied, “I perceive that God is no respecter of persons." Andy Trimble So, I ask again, the Koran and the Bible are NOT 99% the same, are they? Ishmael Abraham They are not only same but have a complementary eschatology.
Andy Trimble That, sir, is a lie. You have assailed the scriptures during this entire discussion, pointing out time and again how the Koran disagrees with it.
Why do you do this?
Andy Trimble Their eschatologies are polar opposites.
Ishmael Abraham And if Peter had clear instructions of Jesus peace be upon him, he would not need a supposed vision.
Ishmael Abraham He would not need a vision in the first place.
Andy Trimble The Koran denies who Jesus is in the bible. The Koran says their will be two in charge during Jesus’ return, the bible says only Jesus will reign. The Koran discredits the apostles. The Koran denies the new birth through God’s spirit. The Koran denies Isaac’s bloodline to Christ.
I don’t say this to discredit the Koran, but to discredit your statement that it is 99% the same as the Bible.
Andy Trimble God says “thou shalt not lie." The Koran says, “it’s okay to lie in order to deceive those who reject Islam."
Ishmael Abraham Quran 36:70 talks about spiritual rebirth.
Andy Trimble You yourself rejected it.
Andy Trimble You said it leads to the trinity.
Ishmael Abraham Even bible says the ONLY son was to be sacrificed and Ishmael was the ONLY son before birth of Isaac peace be upon him according to primogeniture. I am a son of Isaac peace be upon him from my father’s side by the way.
Andy Trimble You said it’s ridiculous to consider God birthing anyone.
Ishmael Abraham In dwelling and spiritual re birth is not the same thing.
Andy Trimble So why did you quote the Koran to say that it does?
Ishmael Abraham Because you are confusing the two concepts. Having a new alive soul is not the same thing as becoming son of God.
Andy Trimble I would change your statement to, “the Koran and the Bible are 99% different."
Andy Trimble Which isn’t true, either, but it’s closer to the truth than 99% the same. Ishmael Abraham When Church forced Muslim Moriscos to convert to Chistianity with death penalty did God allow them to hide their faith. Muslim scholars teach martyrdom is preferable but not everyone has the same level of faith and God loves laity too.
Andy Trimble The catholic church.
Andy Trimble always use the correct words on this subject, please Ishmael Abraham You cannot understand our similarities because you do not understand the threat of atheism and secularism.
Andy Trimble You equating the Roman church with Christianty is like me equating terrism to people like you.
Ishmael Abraham The only church at the time so were all of them unsaved?
Andy Trimble The roman church brutalized Christians, too.
Andy Trimble I do understand the threat of atheism. It is destroying my country.
Andy Trimble It is causing people to become robotized – we battle it here everyday.
You are not coming to our rescue. We are fighting back with truth.
Andy Trimble Let’s not relitigate the crusades in this forum, please.
Ishmael Abraham I see Catholics are more against people of Sodom than Protestants. Andy Trimble LOL… most catholic priests are homosexuals.
Andy Trimble The church FORBIDS them to marry.
Ishmael Abraham They are against the modern culture.
Ishmael Abraham Quran criticizes catholic celibacy.
Andy Trimble Then become a Roman Catholic.
Ishmael Abraham I admire Arian Catholics but they expelled me from their group.
Andy Trimble You know little about Protestantism if you believe that, btw
Andy Trimble They are steeped in idolatry.
Ishmael Abraham Most Protestants are Zionists.
Andy Trimble Praying to Mary and all the other saints.
Andy Trimble LOL… you think that because the political leaders are.
Ishmael Abraham Quran also mentions the heresy of theotokos.
Ishmael Abraham Protestants have a full fledged Zionist eschatology.
Andy Trimble Anyway… I’ve run out of time, and I’ve said to you what you need to know.
Jesus IS the only begotten Son of God. He is the Messiah. God put him in charge, and Jesus has the title of Lord. He died for you and God raised him from the dead.
Anyone who believes that will inherit everlasting life.Those who do not will face judgment about the way they lives their life. Some will make it, some won’t.
That is a completely different message from the Qu’ran. I pray that you will consider it. You seem to have a good heart, but you are letting your religion cloud your understanding.
Please stop lying about the similarities between the Bible and the Qu’ran.
God’s peace overwhelm your heart and lead you to the savior of mankind, Jesus Christ. Ishmael Abraham The word begotten is controversial among bible scholars. According to Ezekiel 18:20 no one can die for the sins of another. Jesus peace be upon him taught us to take our own crosses and millions of Muslims have already been martyred against Antichrist secularism. Both Quran and Jesus peace be upon him teach Abrahamic Unitarianism(Tawhid) and king dom of God but you are too ignorant of Quran and Ishmaelite Prophet from where Kedar lived in Deuteronomy 18 and Isaiah 42. May you attain salvation through keeping the commandments of Deuteronomy 18 and Isaiah 42.
Andy Trimble I love how you quote the bible as if it is truth. You are a contradiction in terms. One minute you say the bible is false, the next, you say it is true.
You cannot read Ezekiel 18:20 without reading the two verses before it. No verse stands by itself. Verse 19 is a question, verse 20 is the answer.
It does NOT say, no one can ever pay for the sins of another. In fact, the scriptures point clearly and repeatedly to a Messiah who would suffer for all mankind. What you have just done is called “proof texting" – using one verse, taking it out of context, interpreting it the way you want so it fits your doctrine.
This is commonly call “falsehood." It is sin, sir, and you should not do it anymore. God doesn’t like it when people do it. I have not distorted the Qu’ran in any way. You should be careful how you distort the Bible.
I am not ignorant of the Qu’ran, at all. I know what it says, and I know you are lying about it being 99% the same as the Bible.
Thou shalt not lie. Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Proverbs 6 12) A worthless person, a wicked man, goes about with CROOKED SPEECH, 13) winks with his eyes, signals with his feet, points with his finger, 14) with perverted heart devises evil, continually sowing discord; 15) therefore calamity will come upon him suddenly; in a moment he will be broken beyond healing. 16) There are six things that YAHWEH HATES, seven that are an abomination to him: 17) haughty eyes, A LYING TONGUE ,and hands that shed innocent blood, 18) a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, 19) A FALSE WITNESS who breathes out LIES, and one who sows discord among brothers.
Ishmael Abraham You consider me a liar because you live a lie that Muslims worship a different God. You forget your own Jewish roots and the significance of concept of spiritual rights of firstborn who is Ishmael peace be upon him a blessed name meaning God hears. Jewish writers of bible and Church did not tell you the second part of Abrahamic story.
Ishmael Abraham My interpretation of Ezekiel 18:20 is confirmed by words of Jesus peace be upon him about taking our own crosses.