A spiritual Ishmaelite

Carlos Madeira Maybe it’s just a bit late and I’m too sleepy to understand what you mean. Maybe it’s a parody of some sort? All I can think about is Jim Jefferies ranting “you can’t start a sentence with ‘as a Christian’ and expect it to make sense."

Ishmael Abraham Sarcasm is not the best way to deal with intelligent believers.

Carlos Madeira Not being sarcastic. Just sleepy, I promise. Would you clarify what your post means? I am curious about “orthodox muslim", since I have not heard this denomination before.

Ishmael Abraham I am an ecumenical first century Muslim. Specifically I am a Zaydi Shia (like many Yemenis) with Sunni Hanafi roots. I am an electrical engineer and lecturer from Pakistan.

Carlos Madeira Thanks for the clarification. I am actually trying to learn more about middle east history, will try to look up and learn what you describe. I am Carlos. Parents did their best to provide a Catholic education, but I never got into religion. I guess that makes me an atheist.

Ishmael Abraham I admire Catholic pro-traditionalism so if they acquire Biblical Unitarian/Arian Catholic theology, that can achieve the much needed counter reformation.

Carlos Madeira You mean to say Catholic church needs to reverse back to its roots?

Ishmael Abraham Saint Arius tried that and Newton wanted that too. I have a vision to achieve that. Al-Azhar Rector met Pope but he is not motivated enough to achieve that. I come from a family of scholars.

Carlos Madeira I don’t think it would be easy to convince Europe to go back to its Catholic traditional ways. What would be the benefit? Additionally, a world free of religiously motivated politics is safer and just to all, believers and non believers alike. Modern European values are aligned with this concept, even if the implementation is somewhat flawed.

Ishmael Abraham I recall a western theologian who noticed similarity between Islam and secularism and their emphasis on our intrinsic goodness. I think both Catholic pro-traditionalism and secularism are serving together an opening on mind to Islam.

Ishmael Abraham Catholics and Muslims both shared their skepticism of modern culture and things like teen pregnancies can be healed through such inter civilisational dialogue.

Kirby Hopper It will never happen. The 7 Ecumenical Councils starting with Nicaea are a bedrock to Catholicism and them reversing their position on the godhead would be an admission that God had not provided them as an infallible interpreter of God’s word. Once they admit to fallibility they will lose about half their members, many of whom will become disillusioned by their church, feel robbed, and get mad. Their pastoral inclinations would never allow such a scenario to be instigated by themselves. Those who see the light just have to leave and start afresh.

Ishmael Abraham Secular Catholics can see that.