Barry Goldwater and Muslim evangelicals

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.”

― Barry Goldwater

Ishmael Abraham Indian Muslim evangelicals are compromising and people pleasing to the extent of being self defeating. They should learn assertiveness from their cousins.

Atheistic rage and Antichrist

Nafi’ reported that Ibn ‘Umar met Ibn Sayyad on some of the paths of Medina and he said to him a word which enraged him and he was so much swollen with anger that the way was blocked.


Ibn ‘Umar went to Hafsa and informed her about this. Thereupon she said:

May Allah have mercy upon you, why did you incite Ibn Sayyad in spite of the fact that you knew it would be the extreme anger which would make Dajjal appear in the world?

Quran 14:4 and multiculturalism

What is the biblical perspective on multiculturalism?

Chris Lee, Neo-Evangelical Protestant Christian, ecclesiology, apologist, M.Div. GCTS
I don’t think the Bible outright addresses the issue of multiculturalism, but H. Richard Niebuhr did write a book, “Christ and Culture." There are five paradigms:

1. Christ against culture — there are times where specific elements of culture or a culture itself is antithetical to Christianity. For instance, until the Edict of Toleration by Constantine, Christianity and the Roman Empire were at odds in many ways.

This also occurs when Christianity is a minority within a larger culture that isn’t even nominally Christian. So to be Christian is to be very different — and a Christian cannot accept these things in culture that are against his or her beliefs. And some of the downsides of this belief is often “circling the wagons" and an “us vs. them mentality."

2. Christ of Culture — there are times when cultures are aligned with Christianity. When Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire and in certain red states of the USA, being Christian was consonant with the general culture.

Unfortunately this also leads to nominalization among some other problems. If Christianity is the official religion, then people just put “Christian" in front of their titles (e.g., “I’m a Christian plumber" or “I’m a Christian fisherman") — but were people really Christians or were they just going along with culture?

3. Christ above culture — there are those who believe our faith has nothing to do with culture and is above culture so to speak — or that is impossible to separate human culture from the grace of God. So culture is neither good nor bad.

This tends to be the paradigm within the Catholic Church. The upside is that this view tends to balance both Christians being involved with culture and yet God as outside of culture, sustaining it. The main downside is that cultural elements can become syncretized within Christianity (e.g., you can worship your family idols as well as worship God).

4. Christ and Culture in Paradox — while there is cooperation within culture and Christianity, there exists also conflict between culture and Christianity.

Niebuhr himself though that this position is static and that the Christian loses the voice to say anything meaningful in/to culture — since this view would just accept culture as is.

5. Christian transforming Culture — an extension of the fourth view, but deliberately, Christians have sought to change elements that are unChristian or antithetical to their beliefs.


Islam and divine protection against fall from grace

Islam teaches prayers like this in spiritually and morally threatening situations. : Allahumma inna nauzubika min ilhaahish shahwati wa shamatatil adaai: O God I ask you for your refuge and protection against impulsivity of lust and mockery of enemies. May God make the faithful firm in spirit and commandments. The Ishmaelite Prophet peace and blessings be upon him prayed: Ya Muqallibal qulub thabbit qalbi ala deenika: O God who changes hearts, make my heart firm on your faith and religion. 

Hijrah and Aliyah

Ummah/spiritual community needs hijrah/aliyah out of melting pots of zina/adultery.{ I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh” (Ezekiel 36:24-26) }

If modern secular humans cannot make hijrah/aliyah to Masjids/Churches/Synagogues, then political hijrah/aliyah will be moral and spiritual failures.

Post righteous kingdom and trinity/antinomianism of Ishmaelites

The bloodshed in Syria is in the name of hatred of first post righteous king named Ameer Mu’awiyah and the bloodshed in Yemen is in the name of love of this post righteous king making it the political trinity of Ishmaelites. Or like Paul who is loved by Gentiles and hated by pronomian Semites. Both appear to disagree with the idea of genetic primacy of righteous Semites and Ishmaelitic Prophetic descendants. This line of thinking makes it plausible that Jewish Einstein had a tendency towards Shia Islam. I am a semi-Shia pro-Zaydi Sunni like Nasai and Shawkani.

Alperovich Anatoly I would love if you explain about shia

Ishmael Abraham They are like zionist rabbis of Ishmaelites. Zionist rabbis want to bring Jewish Moshiach into power while they want to bring Ishmaelite Mahdi into power. But both will be disappointed when Messiah and Mahdi ends up opposing them.
 Both need apolitical Scriptural spirituality to recognize the true Mahdi and Messiah.

Liberal unitarianism, conservative unitarianism and Islam

liberal unitarianism perpetuates conservative trinitarianism. God bless conservative unitarian Christians if they exist.

Peter Bell Unitarians can be any political persuasion they like, but their common choice as I understand it is not to be liberal to preserve conservative trinitarianism but to oppose it because of the excesses of conservative trinitarian fundamentalism, which I think you agree do not help anyone and certainly not the cause of an open conversation with our Muslim brothers and sisters. Some of the local unitarians are conservative on a lot of issues, and the ones I know strongly oppose conservative trinitarianism. I’m not interested in arguing, but I am curious as to the sources for your claim here. Why do you believe that what you said is true?
Ishmael Abraham Fundamentalists need empathetic scriptural dialogue not strong opposition. Jesus kept commandments and then had dialogue with pharisees.


Kirby Hopper I don’t know about the “perpetuates" part of your post, not sure what you mean by that, but yes, there are plenty of conservative Unitarian Christians. I used to be one of them. The Bible College I went to graduated thousands of them. I think the Worldwide Church of God produced quite a few back in the day. I think Christadelphians are socially conservative, as are members of the Church of God, General Conference (aka Church of God Abrahamic Faith) and the numerous graduates of Atlanta Bible College. These are all what we call “Biblical Unitarians", as opposed to the Unitarian Universalists which tend to be very liberal.

The Conservatives among us however Ishmael Abraham are rarely the ones who want to even think that Islam has anything to do with God. Many will say it’s of the Devil. They are the same ones who also say people who don’t believe in Futurism, Penal Substitution Atonement, and Eternal Conscious Torment are also of the Devil. I get that judgement on a regular basis. And building bridges with Muslims? OMG, I am off my rocker according to many. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam having a common source in the God of Abraham? I’m am soooo deceived, they say.

I’ll can say this: I rarely get bored. 🙂

Ishmael Abraham Kirby Hopper you are right liberals are more open minded to intelligent interfaith dialogue but due to my own conservative background I cannot help but have the most respect for conservative unitarians and/or pro Torah unitarians. Or may be liberal unitarians may grow conservative through dialogue with Islam
Kirby Hopper Ishmael Abraham understood. I try to stay away from “my goal for you is to be more like me" however I fight the urge continually. I do believe it’s better to learn to love others enough to respect their particular individual journeys through our spiritual landscape. It’s a good place from which to begin interfaith dialogue.
Ishmael Abraham Kirby Hopper I respect your political wisdom 🙂