Barry Goldwater and Muslim evangelicals

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.”

― Barry Goldwater

Ishmael Abraham Indian Muslim evangelicals are compromising and people pleasing to the extent of being self defeating. They should learn assertiveness from their cousins.

Islam, Christianity and narcissistic victim syndrome

I am an orthodox Muslim with some narcissistic family members. I am raised a Sunni and I like Shia attitude towards narcissistic anti-religious or pseudo-religious dictators. Now I am a semi-Sunni semi-Shia Zaydi. Shias cites Quran 4:148 as the Scriptural basis for being outspoken when you suffer abuse. Religion neither teaches blind anarchism nor blind obedience. Rather a optimal middle path of moderate respectful rebellion on that spectrum. Reza Aslan has shown rebellious elements in early Christianity which are different from modern socialism.

Quran 14:4 and multiculturalism

What is the biblical perspective on multiculturalism?

Chris Lee, Neo-Evangelical Protestant Christian, ecclesiology, apologist, M.Div. GCTS
I don’t think the Bible outright addresses the issue of multiculturalism, but H. Richard Niebuhr did write a book, “Christ and Culture." There are five paradigms:

1. Christ against culture — there are times where specific elements of culture or a culture itself is antithetical to Christianity. For instance, until the Edict of Toleration by Constantine, Christianity and the Roman Empire were at odds in many ways.

This also occurs when Christianity is a minority within a larger culture that isn’t even nominally Christian. So to be Christian is to be very different — and a Christian cannot accept these things in culture that are against his or her beliefs. And some of the downsides of this belief is often “circling the wagons" and an “us vs. them mentality."

2. Christ of Culture — there are times when cultures are aligned with Christianity. When Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire and in certain red states of the USA, being Christian was consonant with the general culture.

Unfortunately this also leads to nominalization among some other problems. If Christianity is the official religion, then people just put “Christian" in front of their titles (e.g., “I’m a Christian plumber" or “I’m a Christian fisherman") — but were people really Christians or were they just going along with culture?

3. Christ above culture — there are those who believe our faith has nothing to do with culture and is above culture so to speak — or that is impossible to separate human culture from the grace of God. So culture is neither good nor bad.

This tends to be the paradigm within the Catholic Church. The upside is that this view tends to balance both Christians being involved with culture and yet God as outside of culture, sustaining it. The main downside is that cultural elements can become syncretized within Christianity (e.g., you can worship your family idols as well as worship God).

4. Christ and Culture in Paradox — while there is cooperation within culture and Christianity, there exists also conflict between culture and Christianity.

Niebuhr himself though that this position is static and that the Christian loses the voice to say anything meaningful in/to culture — since this view would just accept culture as is.

5. Christian transforming Culture — an extension of the fourth view, but deliberately, Christians have sought to change elements that are unChristian or antithetical to their beliefs.


Post righteous kingdom and trinity/antinomianism of Ishmaelites

The bloodshed in Syria is in the name of hatred of first post righteous king named Ameer Mu’awiyah and the bloodshed in Yemen is in the name of love of this post righteous king making it the political trinity of Ishmaelites. Or like Paul who is loved by Gentiles and hated by pronomian Semites. Both appear to disagree with the idea of genetic primacy of righteous Semites and Ishmaelitic Prophetic descendants. This line of thinking makes it plausible that Jewish Einstein had a tendency towards Shia Islam. I am a semi-Shia pro-Zaydi Sunni like Nasai and Shawkani.

Alperovich Anatoly I would love if you explain about shia

Ishmael Abraham They are like zionist rabbis of Ishmaelites. Zionist rabbis want to bring Jewish Moshiach into power while they want to bring Ishmaelite Mahdi into power. But both will be disappointed when Messiah and Mahdi ends up opposing them.
 Both need apolitical Scriptural spirituality to recognize the true Mahdi and Messiah.

Failure of Ishmaelite outreach and tragedy of blasphemy

There are important outreach efforts in our sub-continent. Tabligh movement has global outreach but they are not qualified for interfaith dialogue. Dr Zakir is qualified and a bit confrontational but does not have an organized missionary movement. Mufti Taqi has written some reasonable material about Christianity but laymen in Tabligh movement are out of touch with it . Dr Qadri has tried to visit churches but he is criticized for condoning Christian errors, If we integrate these visions in qualification, compassion and outreach we can minimize these tragic events of blasphemy .

But still we should not ignore the legal element of our religion. In western law, in case of preponderant evidence makes you guilty. For example, the evidence against Dr Afia was not of totally certain nature but still she was sentenced. The idea of complete certainty of evidence is actually Islamic. So, in case of iota of doubt, life imprisonment is more just than execution.

مغرب میں اسلام کا پیغام عام کرنے کی کافی اہم کاوشیں بر صغير میں ہو رہی ہی۔ تبلیغی جماعت کے روابط عالمی سطح پر موجود ہیں لیکن وہ بین المذاہب مکالمے کے اہل نہیں۔ ڈاکٹر ذاکر اہل شخصیت ہیں لیکن ان میں تھوڑا پہلو محاذ آرائی کا بھی ہے اور ن کی کوئی منظم مشنری تحریک نہیں ہے۔ مفتی تقی عثمانی صاحب نے عیسائیت کے حوالے سے چند معقول کتب تحریر کی ہیں لیکن تبلیغ سے وابستہ ایک عام فرد ان سے لاعلم ہے۔ ڈاکٹر طاہر القادری نے گرجا گھروں میں جانا شروع کیا لیکن ان پر عیسائی اغلاط کو تسلیم کرنے کی وجہ سے تنقید کی جاتی ہے۔ اگر اہلیت ، ہمدردی اور اسلام کا پیغام کرنے کی کوشش جیسی تین باتیں جمع ہو جائیں تو ہم توہین رسالت جیسے سانحات ہونے کے امکانات کو کم سے کم کر سکتے ہیں۔ لیکن اس کے باوجود ہم اسلام کے قانونی پہلو کو نظر انداز نہیں کر سکتے۔ مغربی قانون میں ، غالب ثبوت آپ کو مجرم بنا دیتا ہے۔ مثال کے طور پر ڈاکٹر عافیہ صدیقی کے خلاف ثبوت کی نوعیت یقینی طور پر ثابت شدہ نہیں تھی لیکن انہیں سزا سنا دی گئی۔ ثبوت کا کلی طور پر یقینی ہونا اسلام کا دیا گیا تصور ہے۔ لہذا ، شبے کا شائبہ ہونے کی صورت میں سزائے موت کے بجائے عمر قید دینا زیادہ قرین انصاف ہوگا۔

How liberal Muslims use state power to destroy traditional forms of religion?

Liberal Muslims would be arguing against state power in countries like Saudia and Iran, and like they demanded resignation from Morsi. But in secular and semi-secular countries they argue for more state control to destroy traditional forms of religion , which is inconsistent. State has never been as powerful as today since 14 centuries. 

حکومتی کنٹرول اور لبرل تضاد

لبرل مسلمان ، ایران اور سعودی عرب کی طرح کے ممالک میں حکومتی کنٹرول کے خلاف بات کرتے ہیں جب کہ سیکولر یا نیم سیکولر ممالک کے لیے وہ حکومتی کنٹرول کے حق میں دلیل دیتے ہیں.

The alliance of moderate Americans and moderate Muslims

Ishmael Abraham Please prove by raising your voice that all Americans are not sectarian xenophobes or liberal anarchists. 
Gripping. Gut wrenching Yemeni song: Our enemy is America.  Exactly what former CIA chief of the Bin Laden desk was telling us and telling Congress. The Quran isn’t the problem. We are the problem. We are creating terrorists. We are the ones pushing people over the edge. My heart aches. Will the Muslim world ever forgive us? Will we ever see our need to be forgiven? Lord Jesus, help us all.
Ishmael Abraham Kirby Hopper We believe accepting first and greatest commandment forgives all past sins. So, if all Americans become unitarians like you, Muslim theologians will be willing to forgive.

Kirby Hopper Ishmael Abraham I appreciate your desire, rooted in love for the Prophet, that America be not an extremist political entity and we certainly would do things differently if we were to avoid our extremism. As you know I share your concerns.

I would love for Americans to know that Mohammad provides Muslims such as yourself with that moderating desire. All they hear it seems, and all many of my Christian brothers want to hear, is that Mohammad brought nothing but extremism to the table of world affairs and people like you should be feared. This pains me greatly.

That said, there are many of us former Evangelicals who are being moved by our common prophet Jesus, as revealed in our Injil (Gospel) as recorded in our 4 Gospels, which BTW, we believe the Quran upholds as sacred text. None of us are likely to buy the line that the Injil the Quran confirms was in some long-lost book other than our 4 Gospels.

We are being moved to follow his example of passive resistance, the same taught by Gandhi in India.

If Jesus’ example were followed we wouldn’t have shed blood at the American Revolution but let their “tyranny" (which never really necessitated a revolution) work itself into nothing like the other British colonies that followed and gained independence without firing a shot. We could have let S. Korea and S. Vietnam fall to the communists knowing that communism would crumble under its own weight as eventually happened. We could have even done the same with the 3rd Reich, and worked hard to clear the lands of the “undesirables" (Jews, Gypsies, homeless, handicapped, etc.) ahead of Nazi occupation. The million or so Turkish Muslims in and around Berlin could have been a great asset, providing refuge and transport as Muslims did for Jews and Heretics during the Catholic Inquisition.

If our nation, led by Christians who kept up on our foreign policy, followed the example of Jesus we certainly wouldn’t get involved in all of the Middle East’s sectarian Muslim civil wars. We wouldn’t make the Houtis our enemy just because they are supported by Iranians. And if Iranians followed their prophet Jesus I don’t think they would be supporting the Houtis to begin with.

Ishmael Abraham { some long-lost book } The discovery of Codex Sinaiticus which exposes the trinitarian interpolation makes me tolerant towards gospels especially Matthew being the first to be written among them.