On the apostasy of a Scripturally ignorant antinomian Sufi

Ishmael Abraham A case of antinomian upbringing like you.
Mohamed Baker So being brought up Islamically is now a slur? Well that’s a first.
Abdullah Sameer Ishmael what do you even mean
Muslim Al Saabik Can you elaborate?
Ishmael Abraham { Anyways, so I grew up around these kinda people who had more interest in mysticism and spiritual side of Islam } This is a theme common to heterodox Sufism and Ismaili heterodoxy.
Abdullah Sameer What’s a theme? That they leave Islam.
Ishmael Abraham If you have an upbringing either of antinomian extreme or pharisaic extreme, you are more likely to feel a lack of optimal intellectual and emotional satisfaction.
Mohamed Baker You really can’t blame his, apostasy on Sufism because if read the whole thing he said he changed to Salafi Islam because he felt it was more in line with the Quran and hadith

Ishmael Abraham It is natural for an antinomian background to be tempted to reaction of pharisaic extreme of Salafism. Makes perfect sense, but you cannot sustain that for a long time.
Muslim Al Saabik Ishmael Abraham Well I would tell you from experience that people who are more inclined towards sufism are more Intellectually and emotionally satisfied. The ones that are more likely to leave Islam are most of the time the ones that are Salafis/Deobandi types that take the sources of Islam such as the Quran and Hadith as literal and only then find flaws that lead them to leaving Islam.

Muslim Al Saabik Ishmael Abraham That is precisely what was the case with me

Mohamed Baker And what has this got to do with his decision to leave? He didn’t leave because Salafsim was too strict he left because Islam as a religion failed to answer his questions.

Ishmael Abraham Scriptural approach fulfills you intellectually and Sufism fulfills you emotionally. Optimization lies in integrating both. If you lose the balance, then western flood of paganism and sexual revolution drowns you.
Ishmael Abraham I have answered many of his questions. And, can answer your too. You are welcome to add.
Muslim Al Saabik Ishmael Abraham I am sorry my dear you did not answer any questions you just made speculations that cannot be more further from logic and evidence

Ishmael Abraham Which question? I responded to part of what is written.
Ishmael Abraham I did not do what?
Muslim Al Saabik Ishmael Abraham You did not respond logically to any of the above you just made speculations and made your own conclusions

Ishmael Abraham I responded to the upbringing part. The terms letter and spirit of law are used even in logical secular legal discourse. So, educate yourself about the terms I use rather than calling me ignorant.
Abdullah Sameer Yeah he does pop psychology on everyone.

The funny thing is an exmna survey showed people leave Islam pretty much proportionally to the various sects. So it’s pretty much across the board.

These issues are not limited to a certain interpretation or worldview or understanding

Abdullah Sameer Ishmael Abraham lmao. People say I left Islam cuz I was salafi. Now you’re saying he left cuz he’s sufi. Hahaha this is too much

Ishmael Abraham Divisive traditionalism of sects is part of the problem of apostasy like blind modernism. Thanks God, I was raised with balance between tradition and modernity and a balance between Scripture and mysticism.
Ishmael Abraham Yes, both extremes lead to negative reaction of apostasy. There should be a mezan between the two to sustain the faith.

Abdullah Sameer Ishmael Abraham no true Scotsman.

Ishmael Abraham No, there are ecumenical balanced scholars in every sect. Jinnah is an example. He had an Ismaili upbringing but he acquired the balance in his later life.
Muslim Al Saabik Abdullah Sameer Well most of the Ex Muslims i came across use Quran and Hadith in their literal sense and their interpretations from orthodox sunni sources to explain the inherent flaws that it contains the sources that are used are examined in a literal sense (and that is precisely as they should be used). The literal method is used mostly by the Salafis so from my opinion I guess the Muslim can be classified as a Salafi when he uses this method. He finds flaws and leaves Islam making him an Ex Muslim after that. So in my opinion most of the ex muslims are salafis before they leave Islam. But I understand the research if it disagrees with me. 
Mohamed Baker What guy are describing as too strict or too mystical is m basically everybody in the Muslim community some are more “pharisaic" than others. You just want to discrediting his credibility as a Muslim because it’s easier to brand him that way.
Abdullah Gondal Ishmael Abraham //…balanced scholars in every sect. Jinnah is an example. He had an ismaili upbringing….//

Am I reading this right? Muhammad Ali Jinnah is a scholar of Islam? I thought he was a whiskey sipping secularist with many takfir fatwas against him. And wasn’t he a lawyer by profession?

Ishmael Abraham Of course to criticize Islam, one should first understand the nuances of it. Even atheists have a spectrum of faith and faithlessness proposed by Dawkins for example. If you never experienced the optimum, you cannot blame faith.
Ishmael Abraham He was an informed Muslim even though not a scholar in traditional sense. He called for a rational interpretation of Quran. Never heard about the whiskey but if he believed in secularism, then the option of secular India was available.



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